To make this an additional use case for $GNO I wouldn’t include liquid staking tokens in this program, otherwise it would just boost the rewards for GNO, that are in use anyway…
2 Likes
Is there a timeframe wen snapshot vote will go live?
We just edited the proposal, incorporating feedback from the community, topping the eligible spending for accruing rewards in eur 20k/gbp 18/usd 22k per month, and specifying the terms and conditions. It’ll be moved to snapshot soon.
1 Like
I don’t understand this sentence “Users who hold GNO in Gnosis Pay Safe” … do you mean the noncustodial wallet associated with the safe/card account or the second one? If the second one, how will it be possible to deposit and withdraw funds? from what I know it is not possible to withdraw… sorry I’m a newbie
Welcome @Luigidm91
Yes, the “pay safe” is a special Safe that is used with Gnosis Pay. It is absolutely possible to withdrawal from that (otherwise it would not be “none-custodial”). The only restriction it has is that such a transaction (withdrawal) needs to be done with a few minutes delay. This is done so that a malicious user can not spend with the card (and before the EURe is deducted) withdrawal all their EURe from the Safe.
1 Like
I think it was a good ideal to cap rewards per month per user to prevent the worst forms of abuse.
Regarding use of LST GNO - I am with @litocoen on this one.
I think with ~250k validators Gnosis Chain does not suffer from having too little. All GNO rewards that go to GNO holders (like staking rewards and this program) can be seen as a “tax” on those that do not participate in those schemes and just hold GNO. Being a validator benefits the chain, as I layed out above - bringing (genuine) economic activity to the chain benefits its even more - so it is justified to give those groups extra GNO (and thus tax the regular GNO holders). Still, GnosisDAO should also protect the interest of “regular GNO holder” as much as possible and this try to minimize GNO spent.
1 Like
ok but how can I withdraw? the only way I know of to do it is through the gnosis card dapp, and only for eur at the moment
ok thanks, I would like to propose to insert a cap also based on the level of ownership of the gno… I know many users who with just one GNO would easily reach the monthly cap. eg 1 Gno maximum monthly cashback 80usd
just load you gnosis pay wallet in https://app.safe.global, connected to gnosis chain and the address that has control of the safe you should be able to make a withdraw.
1 Like
Yes, but then a Staker should choose between: Should I bother to unstake and deposit into my Gnosis Pay Safe for limited time rewards or just keep using my tradfi card for cashback/rewards?
1 Like
No. In my opinion, as a staker, the question is not whether you should unstake for the card to get the cashback, because that’s an opportunity cost that doesn’t add up and that’s a good thing. The cashback from the card should not be in competition with the validators.
The question you should ask yourself as a staker is whether you should buy additional GNO to generate additional GNO on your daily spend. This is a part of your monthly budget that without cashback is nothing more than an expense.
I think it would be a nice bonus if you could also use the LST for the cashback, but I respect it even more if that’s not going to be the case. It shows that the value of the GNO token is paramount.
It was one of the reasons why the CDC cashback system failed, because you got staking rewards via the card and the cashback. It was just too much and they ran out of tokens very quickly.
1 Like
No, that doesn’t works, currently the Safe app is not able to interact directly with the delay module setup of the Gnosis Card Safe, so the Safe app will see that the delay module is the owner of the Safe and will not let you do anything. Only really advanced users can interact directly with the delay module. As far as I know the Safe team is working on supporting the delay module setup directly on the Safe app but until then the Gnosis Pay dashboard is the only option to easily send funds out of the Gnosis Card Safe.
2 Likes
Thanks for the clarification! Last time I interacted manually with my gnosis pay safe was the day I received the card to remove an owner I had manually added before. Now I am no even a signer anymore…Although I understand that funds that will be used by the card needs protection I don’t understand why this applies to all tx. The way it works now looks not very self-custodial;-)
2 Likes
It is self-custodial but there is the delay module between your wallet and the Safe basically. In details, your wallet owns and controls the delay module who owns the Safe (you can check the setup on the Zodiac app by opening your Safe on the Safe app), and you are also the one controlling limits (much can be spent with the card). That setup adds a 3 minute delays to all transactions except card payments, that modules setup is what enables your Gnosis Card to remain self custodial while also avoiding risks like double spending and so on… Anyway if you have more questions about Gnosis Pay, let’s chat on Discord or Telegram! 
1 Like
But surely if self staking is more attractive (as I am sure it should be since it provides a lot of value to the network) then my question as a staker wouldn’t be whether I should buy more GNO for the card it would be whether I should buy and run more validators …
So I end up having low rewards on the card and so I don’t use it much despite personally contributing to the function of the card’s network.
Seems insane to me that stakers wouldn’t be able to use their staked GNO to gain card rewards.
I’ll do the maths I suppose but I will most likely unstake all my GNO and stop running validators OR continue validating but not use the card if rewards do not account for validator’s staked GNO.
(no opinion on LST)
1 Like
I understand what you’re saying, but from my point of view, the key factor of the cashback card is that you unlock additional rewards on your spending. A simple example. (Please correct me if I am wrong in my assumption).
Let’s say you have 1000€ spending per month. You buy 10 GNO and get 3% cashback per month on the 1000€. So it’s 30€ Rewards per month.
The same 10 GNO would currently generate approx. 150€ per year as a validator, i.e. 12.50€ per month. So the Cashback wins in this scenario.
However, since you can only “scale” the cashback or your expenses to a certain extent, it still makes sense to continue running validators. Depending on how high your exposure to GNO generally is or you want to be. It is therefore a very individual consideration.
2 Likes
Appreciate the maths, but I think it just highlights the problem.
So in my case I would stick with unstaking and shutting down my validators, saving electricity cost and going for full cashback on the card for more rewards. I assume this would be the case for a lot of people unless you run massive amounts of validators.
Doesn’t seem like a great scenario for the ecosystem or decentralisation of the chain …
(I do support the cashback just arguing that staked GNO should be included)
2 Likes
Fair enough. However, I think it’s unlikely that many validators will go out. For my part, I will at least do both and will be happy about higher rewards if you are right and the number of validators drops.
But even if a lot of validators do leave, fortunately the cashback system is limited in time. There is at least the option that they will come back afterwards (with more GNO in their pockets) and we will have more validators than before.
In general I would also welcome LST GNO and the extra rewards too, but I think protecting the community and the GNO system is more important. And that includes not always giving out as much GNO as possible, but being protective with Token and price.
in my opinion a good compromise could be to accept lst gno evaluating a percentage of cashback. It is equivalent to 1 gno in which you will receive 80% of the estimated cashback amount
1 Like